Certification Excerpts from Extended Leadership Team Minutes April 2009

3)  Educational Services  (Rita Herzog, Certification Coordinator - per the Admin Team's request)

Trainer Renewals
Certification Team

Last July and October we conducted trainings to increase the numbers in our assessor team.  So what was the former certification team, where we were dealing with everyone speaking English and maybe eight or nine people on a call or at an email meeting, is now a larger team with the inclusion of all the newly identified assessors and the Educational Services Team.  We are now a team of about 30 people with the interesting challenge of how to create a team and how to create connection, welcoming, and participation.  We are still working on that.

Since last summer we’ve been having monthly teleconference calls with the whole team.  What has happened is that the majority of new assessors are in German speaking areas, and we usually get only one or two of those folks on any one call at any given time so we are wanting to look at ways on how to do that differently because it's important for me that all the team members have input into new agreements.  We are trying to reorganize and add some new things to the trainer agreement and to the assessment process but we want to do this in an inclusive way rather than just saying - ‘Okay this is what it is and now you’re going to abide by this’. So the goal here, with a language barrier, is to provide a chance for input and feedback and a mutual decision-making process.

Well, as you all know, someone telling you what to do is a lot quicker and simpler than getting everyone involved.  To me the process is as important, and more so, than any end product - so we are looking to find other ways.  We are now going to start meeting by phone just every 2 months, with smaller groups meeting in between, working on specific projects. Some assessors are working individually and most are beginning to forms teams with other assessors.  We are going to ask the assessors to submit written reports twice a year.

We want to get more information out in written form which brings up the next question – how to get translations? I have just resisted putting out any notices or any more information to the whole assessor team without knowing that there’s an automatic way of getting it translated - so that everyone gets the same information and understanding at the same time.  We have slightly increased the number of minimum days necessary before people go through a final assessment but most people find that they need a lot more than that anyway before they feel ready to really make that final step.

The fees have been increased but only in terms of that there's now a range of fees offered for people.  The basis of the whole assessment process is that we want it to work looking at the diverse cultures, the different languages, and the different regions of the world - it's a combination of flexibility and consistency.   And that means we want the process to be flexible so that it can be usable and useful in lots of different ways but that the end result is understanding and knowing all the concepts and also being able to live it and model it in ones own life. especially when one is doing training. Things are happening but it’s just taking a lot longer than anyone ever ever have possibly imagined.
Another big change that I like is that registration will happen directly with assessors, rather than happening with individual coordinators, and that means it can take place in another language, other than English.  And the important part is that information will be immediately sent to the CNVC office and whatever parts need to be translated, can be worked out.  So the office, for the first time, will have a list of every single candidate who has been accepted to begin the process and that just feels so wonderful to me.  If we want to send out a message to all the candidates all over the world there's one simple way to do it.

We are looking at how to provide training for a lot of our new assessors and helping them to get started. Registration will not be open everywhere because in some places candidates who've registered in the past have not had any assessors to work with.  We want, as assessors become available, to have them pick up all the existing candidates before registration is open for new people joining us. One other thing that Margo is just beginning to implement is that not only will the information about all the assessors – i.e. what their interests are, who they are, photos of them – not only will that be in the certification preparation package on the website but that will also be listed under the CNVC Governance so that the role they play in contributing to CNVC’s mission can be highlighted and recognized.

I think that that’s enough and gives just a flavor of what’s happening with the whole registration process and getting everything reopened and what changes we are trying to make. Are there any questions about any of that?

Questions from observers:

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: Yes, sure – let see, well, first I guess just being able to understand the Education Services Team - is that the same as or different than the Assessors Group.

Rita Herzog: Well the Certification Team included the registration people, who are now going to be with the assessors. So the assessor team itself is just the assessors and me and that’s kind of like a sub-heading because now we are part of a larger group and Marshall has always been a part of the certification team but that was way before there was even a Valentina. So there's Marshall and Valentina, there’s Margo and Dee, who’s the staff person in the office, as well as, the actual group who are working on certification assessment. The Education Services Team also includes John Kinyon who is a staff trainer. Margo, did I leave anyone out?

Margo Pair: No, that’s it so far and as time and other things come up on the Admin Team "To Do" list we are reviewing, looking at, and wanting to expand how we are able to connect requests for training with a wide variety of trainers and keep CNVC in the loop, so it’s a win-win for everyone.  We are hoping that you will have a different definition of that but not immediately, some time in the future. You’ve got everyone for now Rita.

Rita Herzog: Did that answer your question?

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: Not exactly – so the Certification Team is the same as the Education Services Team?

Rita Herzog: Well, Margo is not on the certification team; John Kinyon is not on the certification team. I wouldn’t say Valentina is on the certification team as such, except in that she works with Marshall. I don’t think that was her function as part of the work that she does. But the large part of it and the most active part of it right now is the people who are involved in the certification process. But that was in existence before there was an Education Services. That’s a larger group  more connected to CNVC than we were previously. I don’t know if that’s helpful or if I’m just adding more information.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: It’s not – I think what I’m trying to get at is just an understanding of the organizational structure.  Underneath the Admin Team, there’s the Leadership Team – one wing of the Leadership Team is the Educational Services – and underneath that is the Certification Team – and underneath that, or sideways to that, is the Assessors group. That‘s what I’m trying to picture and I’m not.

Rita Herzog: The Certification Team is basically the Assessors group. That’s what they do. They register people who are interested in becoming trainers for the organization and they work with them and then they follow through with assessments. So that by the time the assessors are finished with candidates and they have mutually agreed that this person is ready to join CNVC as a certified trainer, the material are then sent to the office for the final part of certification. Marshall is the coordinator of the Educational Services Team.

Susan Livingston: Rita, this is Susan – can I ask a question? Is Jerry complete?

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: I think I might have also been wanting to get at the policies about certification – is it that recommendations are made by the certification team and then they go to the Admin Team.  I guess what I'm asking is who's ultimately making the decisions about policies and how are those made?

Rita Herzog: Basically the Assessment Team is - we try to develop and work them out, based on our own experiences and what's working and what's not working.  We work with Marshall so that he approves of it - a lot of the changes have started with discussions with Marshall, so in a sense a lot of the changes we are making are ideas that he had.  Then others and myself have worked to implement them into doable ways and once that's all agreed upon within the team, that's what we do.  The Admin Team is actually a part of the Education Services Team also – so it’s not as though we are separate it out and go from one to the other because Margo, Marshall and Valentina (Admin Team) are also part of the Educational Services Team. Okay. Susan?

Susan Livingston: Yes, you mention that there were 30 people who are now on the assessor team.

Rita Herzog: Yes, I didn’t count it but somewhere around there.

Susan Livingston: Plus or minus – I’m just wondering if a list of those people exist anywhere with perhaps an indication of their willingness and readiness to take on candidate applications?

Rita Herzog: I am trying to think on how best to answer this. There is a list of everyone on the team – now, I was not a part of setting up the system by which the connection is made with the network and all – so you will have to ask someone else how to access that whole list of names, where they are from, and what their role is. But that is available. And the rest - I am just trying to think, since this is all still in process and up until a month ago the German speaking people, who had gone to the assessor meeting, weren't sure they wanted to be assessors so we haven't updated the information on our website.  I could go back and look at exactly who is available right now that's not listed anywhere if there's specific information you want I could get that to you or you could write to me.  I am not sure where your question is coming from?  Are you asking about a particular region or area?  If you can tell me more precisely what you are wanting to know then I think I'd have a better way of figuring out how to answer it.

Susan Livingston: I am asking in a very general way. I get that question directed at me quite often because I’m such an enthusiastic and faithful observer at board meetings and things like that. People come to me and ask – you know – ‘I’ve got this many days of training in residence and I would really like to complete my certification’ – who should I write to?

Rita Herzog: You mean people who have not ever been registered?

Susan Livingston: Some who have, some who are considering registering, some who would like to register at some time in the future. A variety of people come to me with that question. What can we do? We hear new assessors are out there – we don’t know who they are. How can we find out?

Rita Herzog: Okay – if there are any new assessors out there then they have already been assessors for the past eight or nine years. The only ones out there right now are the ones that have already been listed and I would say, just tell them to write to me.

Susan Livingston: Write to you?

Rita Herzog: Yes, because it depends on the question - if they haven’t even registered yet that’s a different answer. If they’ve registered they either have an assessor or they are waiting for new ones and they know that.

Susan Livingston: OK – that’s helpful to know that you are open to receiving those inquiries.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: I would like to follow up on Susan’s question to see if I'm understanding correctly – so people who had already previously registered before the freeze went into effect are aware of the situation and are being picked up by the new assessors, as the new assessors are ready. Is that accurate?

Rita Herzog: Yes, that’s the idea. Like, for instance, in the German speaking areas we still have to take the whole list and divide them into the different regions because the new assessors, who were getting ready to start have grouped themselves in different regions of Germany and Switzerland.  We have to start putting them together and then the assessors can start contacting the registered people and find out who's still interest or where they think they are in the process. So yes, that’s one area where we want to start taking care of the waiting candidates before we’d open up registration for people to come in and get started.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: Is there any idea as to what might be the timing, roughly, when new certifications might be accepted?

Rita Herzog: Or you saying new registrations – you said certifications? I just want to be clear as to what you are asking.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: People who want to register to be a candidate.

Rita Herzog: OK – and when?

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: Yes

Rita Herzog: It may not be the same all over the world.  We are going to be opening them as soon as we can where the resources are available for them  It's a crazy way to operate, but I don' know what else to do.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: So this is as there's space on the assessors' schedule to take in new people.

Rita Herzog: Or as we get assessors some training so they feel confident in what they are doing.  How to provide some support for them as they get started.  Before this all happened the group only added one new assessor at a time and they had time to spend with experienced ones to get used to what the role is and to have some practice.   We have never dealt with 20+ new people all at one time and so we are making it up as we go along.

Jerry Koch-Gonzalez: Yes, I’m sure there’s quite a backlog of people who want to become certified as soon as the process opens up.  So it will go right back to being full up as much as anyone can do.   Can you say anything specifically about the US?

Rita Herzog: I'd say within a few months - because you see some of the new assessors I think are going to be ready.  There aren’t that many in that area.  One or two might be more ready before another one or two are – so what we want to try to do is just wait until everybody is all set and then say – now it’s open - so as resources become available and people are ready I want to put them to work as soon as I can.  I’m hoping within the next few months we will be able to start opening it up.  One thing we want to be sure of is that we've found all of the waiting candidates so that we can be sure to keep in contact with them. 

Jeff Brown: Rita I heard you say that the certification team had existed long before the Education Services team and I’m particularly curious about when Marshall suspended the program a couple of years ago.  Could you tell us in what way did Marshall interface with the certification team that had been in existence in terms of consulting or communicating with them as he made that decision and how was that for you?

Rita Herzog: Yes, Jeff.  There has been some writing about that and I’m feeling a little sad that we haven’t yet been able to have a letter sent out to everybody because you and others are still asking that question.  I’m hesitant to answer it quickly because it deserves more than just a quick answer and I’m also not sure about the duration of this call and what else is on the agenda for discussion.  So I think I'm going to answer this in general terms for now.  I'm going to just make that choice because we could spend some very rich, lovely hours talking about it.  But basically when we started the new certification process , which was about nine years ago now, moving it away from Marshall having the burden of being the one who had made that decision whether someone was certified or not.  So we took this on.  We spent a year or two with the committee.  I put a call out over the whole network asking who wants to work on this?  we formed a committee and we worked on it.  We kept Marshall informed as to what we were doing.  I think you know how busy his years were then.  So we got almost totally out of contact with each other.  Then at one point when Marshall decided that he really wanted to know what was going on with the process, and there are lots of reasons for that, and wanted to have more say in what was going on - we were not at all in very good connection.  It took quite a while.  There were many reasons for that and again, I'm going to choose not to spend the time now to go into details about it.  There was very much a lack of connection and it took us a long time to get back in connection - a lot of empathy.    Until Margo came along there wasn’t any good resource to help make this happen and it took a while.  Marshall had found some things that he didn’t like about what was going on, [Host line accidentally disconnected and recording stopped, minute taking continued.] and I agreed with him on that, he made a choice to stop certification, without asking the teams about it. It did cause a big rift. It has taken a while, but at this time, and it’s the miracle of NVC in action all over again, we have a good working relationship.

Jeff Brown: I appreciate your candor. I have a second question. Some months after Marshall suspended the certification program, there was an email from Margo about receiving feedback from trainers as new standards for certification are being considered. Could you give me examples of feedback from trainers that's being used as this process is being reconsidered. 

Rita Herzog: I read it all and liked a lot of it but at this point I can't pinpoint any of it. Everything we are doing now has come from those comments and our experiences, looking for values and accessing communication, crossing language barriers, really valuing as we always have - mutuality. Everything has to do with mutual decisions. That takes a while for people to figure out. [Host line accidentally disconnected and recording stopped, minute taking continued.] I’ve got some wonderful testimonials from people who have gone through the process and how much they’ve learned from it and how satisfying it was.  So we learned from all of that but if you want some specific feedback I’d have to go back and read it to pinpoint what happened.

Jeff Brown: Okay – I appreciate that.  I don’t have any more questions.  But briefly I would like to share with the group who's listening how I am with all of this.  My need for trust is a little up and it has increased a little as a result of this call.  For me the pink elephant in the room is the way that Marshall, and I guess Marshall and Valentina make decisions – and I point to this example about how the decision was made about stopping the certification, which is very troubling to me - it’s scary!  To think that one or two people have the power to do that.  I’ve been waiting nearly two years to engage about how my needs have been impacted by this.    I feel scared and I have felt scared for quite a while. So to me the pink elephant in the room is, first of all, that Marshall and Valentina are not on this call and the decisions they make. Secondly, I’ve not been able to dialogue with them about it. And thirdly, and it may be just a complete coincidence, is about a minute or two after you started talking Rita I heard the recording had stopped. I don’t know if the recording has stopped or not but I feel triggered by that because my need for trust is so present. Did anybody else hear the recording stop?

Others: Yes, we heard that

(Pan Vera: Interjecting into discussion but he is not being heard by others.)

Rita Herzog: Margo, could you respond to that?

Margo Pair: Yes, this is Margo. We heard it here at the office too; we did not do anything to stop it. I noticed on the screen that Pan was trying to move some things around with the calling. Pan – are you at a point where you can give us an update?

Pan Vera: Yes, can you heard me? It doesn’t sound like you can hear me.

Jeff Brown: Maybe we lost Pan and he was the one who was doing the recording.

Jeff Brown: I guess I’m not so concerned with that right now but I’m baffled why this call was scheduled at a time when Marshall and Valentina would need to be resting. I would love for Marshall and Valentina to be available for some of these calls, since as I see it they are the ones making decisions in this organizations, my trust is nearing zero if they are unresponsive. 

Pan Vera: This is Pan (no one can hear Pan)

Rita Herzog: I am certainly aware that this is something you're holding close and haven't had the clarity or empathy to find much ease with it. I am trying to understand the impact it has on your, and the trust you want to feel in the organization that you have such emotional stake in. 

Jeff Brown: You got it .

Rita Herzog: OK, well that just helps me to understand. If there’s something that you’d like to continue to talk about with me on a call, I would be glad to do that. I might be able to offer you some more ideas about it.

Jeff Brown: I appreciate that Rita – I might take you up on that.

Rita Herzog: OK

Pan Vera: This is Pan - I wonder if you can hear me now.

Everyone: Yes

Pan Vera: I am now recording the call here on a local recording device because for some reason our online recording came to an end. I want you to know that we do have a recording being made as we speak now.

Margo Pair: Thank you

Jeff Brown: This is Jeff – I just want to say one more thing quickly I know that I’m using up time here. I have never not received empathy from you Rita and anyone else and I am quite confident that empathy is not my only need. For the record for this group I would just like to be heard.  I have gotten so much empathy about this and I’m sure I could use more, obviously I could. My other needs involved here are that once I receive enough empathy there' my precious need for partnership and transparency and integrity that are so alive in me. So I’m complete – I don’t need to say anymore.

Kirsten Kristensen: I’m in Denmark and I would like to know if there are any other people from the Scandinavian areas like Denmark, Sweden, Norway – can you tell me that?

Rita Herzog: Who is an assessor?

Kirsten Kristensen: I am guessing Towe Widstrand is -?

Rita Herzog: Yes, but you are asking who are assessors from Denmark, Sweden area. Is that your question?

Kirsten Kristensen: If there are more other than Towe.

Rita Herzog: Actually it’s a different picture than even you are suggesting. We don’t have assessors for each area of the world. Right now there are three assessors who are focusing on English speaking people for all the rest of the world, besides North America.  They are Towe Widstrand in Sweden; Gina Laurie in the UK and a new assessor, who is working with Gina, Vicky Peirce. We are developing Dominic Barter as an assessor in Brazil and Ron Ngata who is an assessor in New Zealand. Both of those would be English speaking as well. But for the general part of Europe, Towe would be the one, not only the Scandinavian area, but also for other parts of Europe and other continents as well. Anne Bourrit, who is both French and English speaking, will be focusing on Eastern Europe and Africa. Then there are two other who will be focusing on India - I think one is English and French speaking and the other is probably more involved in the languages in India. But that’s it.

Kirsten Kristensen: Thank you! I’m very grateful to have this answer. My second question is how this will be connected to local teams. We are now in Denmark and we have a circle there now and we are starting to create connection between trainers and also people who are not trainers.  My big dream is that certification is somehow connected to these local circles and I wonder if a candidate from Denmark wants to be certified now, could that happen without anyone in my country knowing about it - that's how it has been in the past.  Sometimes there was no connection between the local groups and new candidates and it has created a lot of frustration when a candidate has been certified without having that kind of cooperative connection.  It has also been very difficult to have cooperation in our local groups. 

Rita Herzog: I am aware of the situation that you are speaking of and I have a couple of hopefully not real long answers on this call. But I would want to say that first of all, as more local teams are created, which is wonderful, they can be more involved with candidates.  We would want candidates to be connected to local teams or even if they create their own to create connections between the teams. We are also beginning to offer some support for different groups in one country who have some conflicts.  CNVC is really supporting a series of phone calls to help mediate and work out those differences so that people really create good working relationships, whether or not they love each other. I’m not going to worry about that one! I would certainly want there to be connections and that’s something that I know that I want to talk more about with the Danish groups and the trainers. To see what we can do to support something that feels more connected for everyone.

Kirsten Kristensen: Thank you. I needed to hear that this is really also part of the new requirements to become certified. Thank you - I’m done. I’ve very happy for the chance to hear from you directly – I have a big smile on my face – thank you!

Rita Herzog: Thank you – now I do too!

Margo Pair: This is Margo – I dearly love the connections that we are making, the information being shared on a topic that is near and dear to all our hearts but we have about seven more minutes until our end time so we might want to expand our time for those who would like to stay on the line.  With the time we have left what I would like to do, if that's all right with everyone, is end your report Rita, and then move to the GCC report, and then if there's interest and time permits, go to the Office Report.  Would that be OK?

Rita Herzog: I’m fine with that – thank you!